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Post by Nick on Jun 23, 2020 23:42:17 GMT
The Brief History of Tianjin Tianhai
Tianjin Tianhai were only formed in June 2006 as Hohhot Binhai and based in Hohhot, the capital of Inner Mongolia. A year later, Tianjin Songjiang Sports Culture Industry Co. Ltd took control of the club, uprooting them to Tianjin, China and renaming them in the process. Since then they've operated as Tianjin Quanjian and now under their current guise.
In 2017, at the start of the gold rush in Chinese football, Tianjin Tianhai (or Quanjian as they were known then) was one of the league's most ambitious clubs. They list Fabio Cannavaro as one of their former managers, with Axel Witsel and Alexandre Pato as former players. Their extravagant spending meant they finished third in the 2017 Super League season, but it was clear that level of spending couldn't continue.
After the imprisonment of former owner, Shu Yuhui, the club's bills have struggled to be paid and, just last month the club folded in real life.
Tianjin Tianhai - In Game
Chinese teams are famous for throwing money around in FM - not Tianhai (which is how I'll refer to us from now on.) We are the only club in the Chinese Super League that doesn't have any kind of sugar daddy. We have no huge financial backing, no marquee players and limited sponsorship.
While other Chinese teams can boast the likes of Hulk, Alex Teixeira, Elkeson, Oscar, Marko Arnautovic, Salomon Rondon and more, we have Leonardo as comfortably our best player and Sun Ke sitting on £82k per week. Oh, and our best defender, Kwon Kyung-Won, is on military service for three years.
The club ground shares with city rivals Tianjin TEDA in 60,000 all-seat Tianjin Olympic Centre Stadium 'Water Drop' and possesses pretty terrible facilities across the board.
- Below average training facilities
- Basic data analysis facilities
- Poor youth facilities
- Average academy coaching
- Basic youth recruitment
The Super League consists of 16 teams and we're expected to finish 15th.
The pre-season odds show you just how much of a challenge lay ahead of us. The board don't hold out too much hope of a successful season and just want us to battle bravely against the drop. We do play in the Chinese FA Cup and we're expected to reach round five.
I have played through the first season just to make sure the save was going to stick so I'll update on that tomorrow morning.
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Post by hokster on Jun 24, 2020 1:03:22 GMT
Awesome choice, Nick. I didn't realize that there was a non-sugar daddy CSL club! That's a fascinating challenge.
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Post by Dirk Nowitzki on Jun 24, 2020 5:58:21 GMT
Wow, this sounds like a proper challenge! Sun Ke looks atrocious for a 82k per week player, most my players at ASEC are better and on less than 500 euro a week. What are the foreigner rules like? They are pretty strict nowadays, right?
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Post by Reiver on Jun 24, 2020 8:15:04 GMT
Do they still have the whole GK must be chinese rule?
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Post by ttgb on Jun 24, 2020 10:04:13 GMT
What happened with the other save Nick?
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Post by Nick on Jun 24, 2020 10:14:39 GMT
Awesome choice, Nick. I didn't realize that there was a non-sugar daddy CSL club! That's a fascinating challenge. No, neither did I. Like usual when I choose a new save, I open up the editor and use that to set certain filters to narrow down my choice. I'd had China in mind for a while, but it was an easy choice when I saw that Tianhai stood out from the rest. Wow, this sounds like a proper challenge! Sun Ke looks atrocious for a 82k per week player, most my players at ASEC are better and on less than 500 euro a week. What are the foreigner rules like? They are pretty strict nowadays, right? If the first season is anything to go by, this is going to be pretty hard, especially at the start of the save, but maybe even further on as well. I'm not sure what happened with Sun Ke, the next next highest paid player is on £31k per week, but there are only five players on over £10k. He wasn't even first choice by the end of the season and is kicking up a fuss about leaving. so we'll see what happens. Transfer rules are pretty extensive but not too restrictive: Do they still have the whole GK must be chinese rule? They certainly do. I think I'm right in saying that this rule has been around for years in China. Is there another nation around the world with a rule that specific? I can't think of one. It means that good Chinese goalkeepers are going to be hard to find and cost a wedge when we find them.
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Post by Nick on Jun 24, 2020 10:16:11 GMT
What happened with the other save Nick? Just got a bit stale in the end. I've kept it, and will go back to it after this save, but for now I just needed to freshen things up a bit.
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Post by Nick on Jun 24, 2020 11:21:09 GMT
2019 Season Review Let's not beat around the bush here, this is going to be a tough challenge. This season was one of the toughest I've ever played.
The start of the season was rough. Anyone that half follows Chinese football will know that, in general, teams make attacking players their marquee signings, meaning that the defensive players in the league are usually of a fairly lower standard. What this roughly translates to is: goals.
After my Velez save, I had intended on freshening things up tactically and trying something new, but there was no getting away from the fact that the squad was set up to play in a 4-2-3-1 formation so for the time being that's what we've lined up with.
Our performances over the first ten matches were far better than our results. Just the one win to show for our efforts, over Tianjin TEDA no less, and if I was in any doubt about how hard this season would be, the first ten matches extinguished that doubt. Still, most of the time we were 'in' the games, we just didn't have the quality at either end of the pitch to compete further. I was also wrestling with extremely poor team cohesion, something that didn't improve until after the mid-season break, and a pretty poor atmosphere in the dressing room.
I used the winter break as a time to boost morale. I arranged friendlies against third division teams that we were comfortably expected to beat. Thankfully we did that and the boost to morale paid immediate dividends. Our first game back after the break was a 5-0 win over Beijing Guoan, comfortably our best result of the season. One thing I accepted was that we were going to take beatings. The key was to make sure they were by three rather than five or six goals. Destroying morale is massive in FM and I managed to keep ours at a level that wasn't worrying. Home wins over Beijing Renhe and Hebei China Fortune at the start of August went a long way to sealing our place in the Super League next season. Renhe were battling around the relegation places like us, so beating them ensured that we kept our heads above water.
We had to wait until the end of September for another win but they came back to back against Henan and Shenzhen. The last three games were rough, three losses and three poor performances. Thankfully Beijing Renhe and Shenzhen couldn't capitalise on those poor results and we secured our safety by one point on the final day of the season.
FIXTURES 1 | FIXTURES 2 | TABLE
We also played the Chinese FA Cup and met the board's expectations of reaching round five (we enter at round three) where we lost on penalties to Shandong.
Two players stood out among the rest this season. Leonardo and Yang Xu both ended the season with 16 goals. If I was to tell you that our next highest scorer only had four, you'll understand how important these two were to our survival hopes. Leonardo won the Fans' Player of the Year award with a whopping 77% of the vote. The worry is that they're both over 30 and starting to decline.
Hulk won Player of the Year, after scoring 20 goals and getting 17 assists in all competitions this year. The guy is on £450k per week. Over twice the budget of my entire squad.
Next, lets talk money. We started the season with £8.5m in the bank. We ended £2.1m in debt. Just when I thought the challenge couldn't get any bigger. It's clear Sun Ke has to leave. I can't afford £82k per week at the moment, especially for someone that isn't isn't first choice. Sponsorship money will get us out of this hole, but we'll be back in it in no time and things are probably going to get worse before they get better. Song Joo-Hoon is currently the highest valued player in the squad and, while there is no interest in him at the moment, if that changes, then his head might be the first on the chopping block.
Long term aims of the save are still to be decided. I originally had this down as a YDWAWK's save, but I think that might be asking a bit too much. If Leonardo and Yang Xu were three or four years younger it might be possible, but it seems unrealistic. There's still that nagging doubt in my mind that it could be absolutely epic though.
I've done nothing to improve the club off the pitch just yet. I wanted to ensure that I didn't lose my job before diving in with both feet. As you can imagine, the entire club needs a complete overhaul.
Not sure on the schedule of the updates yet. 30 games and just one cup is about half of the games in my Velez save so I'm probably going to fly through the seasons. I think I'll update once at the start and once at the end of the season and then focus in more detail on different parts of the club, especially at the start.
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Post by ttgb on Jun 24, 2020 11:29:05 GMT
Well done on surviving. This seems a great challenge, both on and off the pitch. Something I need from a save.
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Post by mrcool on Jun 24, 2020 13:08:23 GMT
Great work
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Post by jawzy on Jun 24, 2020 17:38:16 GMT
I had a beta save in China for two seasons with Hebei
quick seasons, nice money floating around. just lac of good chiniese.
(there is a limit to number of players you can sign in one of the windows iirc)
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Post by chaodck on Jun 24, 2020 18:29:31 GMT
This is truly something Nick, I really like the club choice and it's a fucken massive challenge ahead of you. Surviving the drop was the first task, getting the club financially afloat is maybe a bigger one. Are you looking to offload a ton of players? Any decent free signings you think you can lure to China for low wages? Best of luck my friend.
EDIT: Also, love the save name and the trend of puns in them alongside mine own and Hokster's.
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Post by Nick on Jun 24, 2020 19:51:30 GMT
I had a little think about the direction I want to take the save. I think relying solely on my youth system is going to be the wrong way to go about things, especially in this early stage. I also like the idea of watching the scouting team grow and trying to get into the position where I can pick up the best Asia has to offer. With that in mind, I will be making transfers, but they have to be players of Asian nationality. They don't necessarily have to be based in Asia, but I'd like them to be. What I don't want is for us to conform to the typical Chinese way of approaching transfers i.e the expensive imports from Europe and South America. We need to stand out for being different. The development of Chinese players will always be important due to the league rules so, when we manage to improve our facilities, developing our own players will also be important. This will translate to my approach to staff as well.
My first job over the off-season was to assess the staff at the club. It didn't take long. To a man they were all garbage. My problem is that most of the staff I can attract are all garbage too. Unlike with Velez where I had the pick of South American staff, this is going to be a much slower process. I did manage to improve us across the board but we still have a long way to go.
At the end of last season:
At the start of season two:
I've grown quite particular when it comes to staff, especially when it comes to personality. As a rule, I don't employ anyone with a 'negative' personality. As a minimum they need to be Balanced, but ideally they'd show some form of Determination or Professionalism. Hopefully in the future we can beef that up a bit and look at those Model Citizens and Model Pros.
The transfer window was incredibly frustrating. As I predicted, the incoming sponsorship money was enough to take us out of debt briefly, but the board have slashed the wage budget to £200k per week, which is what we're currently spending. With no transfer budget and no available wages, bringing players in was impossible. I tried getting rid of Sun Ke but, as you can imagine, finding someone who wanted to pay his wages was impossible, so we're stuck with him for at least six months. The good news is that his deal runs out at the end of the this season, so at least we'll be rid of him at some point.
Huang Jinzhao came through the youth intake last season, but when Changchun Yatai came in with an offer of £2m + 50% of next sale, I decided it was in the club's best interest to sell. We don't have the facilities to improve these young players so unless someone like Tang Renliang comes through as is immediately good enough for a place in the first team squad, I need to look at selling them. These clubs have a lot of money to spend and, if this first window is anything to go by, young Chinese players are going to be sold for inflated prices. I did look at bringing a couple of players in on loan that would have improved us massively, but they had absolutely no interest in anything but a permanent move, which we can't afford. We'll go into the season as we were. We had an offer of £5.75m for Lui Yue accepted by the chairman on deadline day, but the young lad rejected Shenzhen's offer.
We'll also go in as underdogs:
The two promoted teams are both backed by tycoon money which means we're now predicted to finish rock bottom. We're going to have to rely on continuity, morale and team cohesion to get us through this year because the league looks stronger than last year. This screen once again shows the disparity in what each team brings in compared to ours. In fact, if you look at this table for the teams in the division below, our £4.9m income is only good enough for 13th, which is slightly worrying.
The transfer window wasn't depressing for everyone though and I think I'm going to spend some time in each window looking at what the other Chinese clubs have been doing. I've not managed here before and not seen anyone have it loaded long term, so I'll find it interesting (and a little depressing I'm sure) even if no-one else does!
The biggest deal came in the form of Nicolas Otamedi for £30m. The surprise is that he went to Beijing Guoan rather than one of the clubs that are at least in the Asian Champions League. Money talks though. Shandong signed someone I know extremely well in the shape of Luis Abram from Velez. The shock is that they only paid £6.75m for him, which should be a bargain. They also spent £20.5m on Lyanco from Torino and in the process, rubbished my claims that Chinese clubs usually spend on attacking players. Those two are surely the best centre back pairing in the league. If we even score against them I'll count it as a win! Other notable transfers are Arijan Ademi (£18.5m), Alan Franco (£6.75m), Willian Arao (£14.75m) and Robert Arboleda (£14.25m). How the other half live.
So there we have it. We're about to start the season against Shanghai Shenhua with the whole of China expecting us to be relegated.
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Post by dalenichol on Jun 24, 2020 20:43:50 GMT
Brilliant stuff Nick, I'm really liking the look of this save. It's going to be one hell of a challenge being in a league full of money, but you'll do well if you can play your cards right. Getting Sun Ke off the books if going to be absolutely vital though, I'm sure.
Not to try and derail the thread, but I'm currently looking at Asia for a save now, potentially one of the Gulf states. A few bugs in my Burkina Faso save that are frustrating me.
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Post by Nick on Jun 24, 2020 22:02:28 GMT
Brilliant stuff Nick, I'm really liking the look of this save. It's going to be one hell of a challenge being in a league full of money, but you'll do well if you can play your cards right. Getting Sun Ke off the books if going to be absolutely vital though, I'm sure. Not to try and derail the thread, but I'm currently looking at Asia for a save now, potentially one of the Gulf states. A few bugs in my Burkina Faso save that are frustrating me. It definitely has some serious potential, but these early seasons are going to shape the save. I don't think fighting bravely against relegation will be enough anymore, we'll need to stay up. Financially, we're absolutely fucked. We're already over £2m in the red and there's very little hope of getting out of it without a) a takeover or b) selling our highest valued players, which is obviously a catch-22. My fear is that the wage budget is cut even further and we're then unable to offer our current players new deals. Sun Ke needs to go even more urgently now, but even after getting him to put his name out there, there's no interest. I had a good look around Asia before deciding on China and there are some really interesting places. I looked at Iran, Uzbekistan, Indonesia and Iraq but, having not managed here for more than about a season, I decided all of them might be a bit too much like jumping in the deep end and I bottled it!
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Post by Nick on Jun 25, 2020 11:44:17 GMT
2020 Mid-Season BreakWhat I've learnt so far this season:
- We're going to concede goals and take heavy beatings - There's no other way around it. We are coming up against attacking players that are far above the level of our defenders.
- Attack is the best form of defence. I use the term defence lightly given the above, but what I mean is that if we sit back in a low block and look to hit on the break, we're on a hiding to nothing. We don't have the quality to hold these players off and allow them to dictate the game.
- I can't be too hard on the players. Even if we get dicked, I need to keep morale as high as possible. I never tell them I'm disappointed, just that they tried their best and put in good effort.
- High morale is key. A happy team is a better team.
We started the season in woeful form, albeit with one of the hardest starts. Shanghai Shenhua, Guangzhou, Beijing Guoan and Dalian Pro. Four defeats, three goals scored, eleven conceded. Not ideal and, just like last season, only Leonardo and Yang Xu look like scoring. This doesn't bode well for the future.
I'd be lying if I said we'd performed well. Only Beijing comprehensively outplayed us, but we were dominated by the other three.
April arrived and we faced a visit to Wuhan, who had started just as poorly as we had. Within 20 minutes we were 2-0 up and survived the backs-o-the-wall second half to take home a 2-1 win and our first points of the season. That triggered something that no-one expected, even me. Our games rained goals as we went not one, not two, but six matches unbeaten!! I don't know what clicked. Maybe nothing did? Maybe it was just high morale and a little bit of luck, but we propelled ourselves away from the relegation zone and have daylight between us and the dreaded dotted line. Back to back losses against Shanghai SIPG and Henan before the winter break were expected, but did nothing to dampen my spirits!
We can't afford to get ahead of ourselves though. There's a reason we're predicted to finish bottom and we need to be realistic. We are more than capable of mirroring our early season form over the second half of the season, but we're also more than capable of losing our next seven matches in a row and getting dragged back into the mire. For now though, we'll enjoy the start and bask in our relative glory.
Our performance in the cup was less glamourous. We were 3-0 up away at a team two divisions below us. I decided to make a triple sub and rest our better players. The rest is history. We lost 4-3 and were dumped out. Every cloud though, we've managed to keep players fit and well rested between matches.
Leonardo continues to lead the way in terms of goals (8) and assists (5) but he is ably backed up by Yang Xu. As you can see, Leonardo is on the decline and I'm 99% sure that I'm going to give him this season before retraining him to play as an Enganche. I've also recently signed him to a new deal on around £10k per week less than he was on.
It'll come as no surprise to you that our finances are still a mess. I'm beginning to see why the club folded in real life. We're currently £3.2m in debt, but with no gate receipts coming in over this break, that's likely to sky-rocket by the time we kick a ball again. I've been scouting China and Japan just to build up a shortlist, should anything change. Japan especially looks like it could be a great option for recruitment of players on manageable wages.
I don't see anything changing over this two month break. I'll try and keep players fit, arrange a few friendlies to boost morale and just hope we can hit the ground running again over the next 17 games. I'm really enjoying these short seasons. They split the fixtures nicely and I'm able to process quickly between matches. I'd love to start building the club for the future, but for now it's about the present. There are no quick fixes. There was talk of a takeover a couple of times last season, but it's all quiet on that front this year.
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Post by Nick on Jun 25, 2020 13:59:26 GMT
First game back after the break. First clean sheet. Last year we won the first game back 5-0, so there's a lot to be said for raising morale over this period.
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Post by Nick on Jun 25, 2020 14:17:06 GMT
China is such a mad league. Our next opponents, Shandong, have just signed this lad for £21m from Napoli: By comparison, our first choice attacking midfielder looks like this: Chalk and cheese.
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Post by chaodck on Jun 25, 2020 14:27:37 GMT
Good progress there Nicko, I'd say you don't need much more in the way of points to survive the drop. Hang in there mate, this will be so worth it.
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Post by Nick on Jun 25, 2020 14:53:33 GMT
Good progress there Nicko, I'd say you don't need much more in the way of points to survive the drop. Hang in there mate, this will be so worth it. We're nearly there mate. 25 was enough last season, but I think we might need closer to 30 this year. That's my target at the moment. Our run at the start of each set of fixtures is tough as we play all the best teams, but if we can get through that with morale still at a reasonable level then we should be okay. We don't lay a glove on the likes of Shandong, Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, they're just too good. Our points need to come from the other sides.
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stouters
New Member
@stouters79
Posts: 117
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Post by stouters on Jun 25, 2020 21:58:09 GMT
Is there any room for money spinning friendlies with top European clubs with the break in fixtures?
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Post by Nick on Jun 25, 2020 22:00:50 GMT
Is there any room for money spinning friendlies with top European clubs with the break in fixtures? Possibly, and it's something I will look into. At the moment I've been more concerned with creating friendlies that will keep morale high. I know in previous versions you could really make some money (like millions). Is that still the case or have they toned it down a bit?
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Post by dalenichol on Jun 25, 2020 22:22:40 GMT
Is there any room for money spinning friendlies with top European clubs with the break in fixtures? Possibly, and it's something I will look into. At the moment I've been more concerned with creating friendlies that will keep morale high. I know in previous versions you could really make some money (like millions). Is that still the case or have they toned it down a bit? It's definitely not the same as it used to be, and being in China you're probably going to struggle unless you can get the really top tier clubs to come over, we're talking Champions League winner tier. Like, I can get PSV for a friendly, but they want 78k to come and the board predict I'll make 58k...so I'd be losing money. It's a much better tool for small clubs these days. I could cover 2-3 months wages with the right friendlies in Burkina Faso, for example.
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Post by Nick on Jun 26, 2020 10:50:34 GMT
2020 Season ReviewThis team just keeps surprising me every week and I can't speak highly enough of them. We take some absolute tonkings, that's just par for the course at the moment, but we're very good at beating the teams around us to ensure that morale never drops too significantly.
We improved in nearly every area this season. We gained four more wins than last season and had three fewer defeats. We scored thirteen more goals and our goal difference was +13 better than last season. The only minor criticism would be that we conceded eight more goals than last year, but that's something I can live with for now. One thing you can't throw at us is that we're boring. We play good football and the games we do win are usually absolute pastings rather than an edgy 1-0 or 2-1 victory.
Leonardo continues to play above and beyond my expectations and indeed anyone at the clubs. Last season he finished second in the top scorer race, this year he was third (15 compared to 16). When you consider the rest of the top five is Talisca, Renato Augusto, Elkeson and Salomon Rondon, you can see how good he is for us. Add in the fact that he also came second in the league for assists (14) and it would be appropriate to label him our talisman. I'm gutted he isn't five years younger.
I also want to mention Tang Renliang, a player that came through our academy last season. If we're honest, he was never ready to be thrown into the first team, but his development has been unbelievable and his average rating of 6.97 is actually quite decent when you play for a team that conceded over 2 goals per game this season. If you look at this graph you'll see that something just clicked later on in the season. I've been trying new things out in terms of training and periodisation and it seems to have done wonders for him even with our dreadful facilities.
On first glance our youth intake doesn't look that great, but we're in a position where we can actually offer some of these kids a spot in the first team. I didn't sign everyone, and I'll highlight only a couple. Sun Zhenyu comes in as the highest rated but obviously has a dreadful personality and a set of mediocre technical and mental attributes. Li Zhongdi on the other hand will go straight into the first team for next season. Attacking mid is the position we're struggling in massively for quality but he's actually good enough to come in as first choice.
Finally the finances. I just don't know what do do about them. We consistently lose money hand over fist every month and we are in real trouble. We end the season £9.6m in the red and I just can't see a way out. The obvious answer would be to cut the wage bill. We currently spend £193k per week on wages. The departure of Sun Ke will reduce that by £82k which is great, but will leave us a player light. Liu Yue was the subject of bids last season, so it's reasonable to assume that will be the case again. Last time the chairman accepted £5.75m for him, but I think I can hold out for more if given the opportunity. Again, he'll need replacing. Our sponsorship deals will reduce it by half, but the board don't seem to be worried by it. They've not reduced the wage bill for next season which is a life saver, but it's going to be another season of just surviving.
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Post by jawzy on Jun 26, 2020 12:58:17 GMT
When I was managing in China, I briefly considered in having 2 forieghn defeders to try nullify the foriegn attackers, but the idea of potentially only having 1 or 2 foriegn attackers, worried me somewhat.
maybe having very attacking fullbacks and 1 cd with the others being attacking options is way to roll.
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stouters
New Member
@stouters79
Posts: 117
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Post by stouters on Jun 26, 2020 13:27:54 GMT
I haven't managed in China since I did a C&C with them on TD. Still good to see Beijing doing well. Is Sun Zhenyu worth hanging on to. I don't know if you meant to add a link to his name.
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Post by Nick on Jun 26, 2020 13:40:36 GMT
When I was managing in China, I briefly considered in having 2 forieghn defeders to try nullify the foriegn attackers, but the idea of potentially only having 1 or 2 foriegn attackers, worried me somewhat. maybe having very attacking fullbacks and 1 cd with the others being attacking options is way to roll. It's something I am going to have to think about going forwards. At the moment I am just trying to get in anyone that has any real quality to try and improve us. I think long term, I will be looking to have a 'marquee' (in relative terms) player down the spine of the team in each position. (i.e one, defender, one midfielder, one striker) That will be set and then it leaves me with two extra foreign places for other positions. Obviously I can't see into the future and see who's going to be available so it might change, but that seems the sensible choice. There is actually a decent amount of Chinese players that aren't totally useless which is encouraging. It also looks like Japan and South Korea are going to be great sources for recruitment.
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Post by Nick on Jun 26, 2020 13:42:53 GMT
I haven't managed in China since I did a C&C with them on TD. Still good to see Beijing doing well. Is Sun Zhenyu worth hanging on to. I don't know if you meant to add a link to his name. Yeah I did mate, my bad. I've added a screenshot of him now.
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Post by chaodck on Jun 26, 2020 14:18:45 GMT
Good job Nick, tough season but I'm very much glad you're enjoying yourself in the process. Regarding the finances I don't think you've got much else to do but sell whatever you can to try and cut the wage bill and get some cash quick. Replacing guys is hard and I'm sure there's not much interest in guys going to a broken club in China, but unless you have some sort of takeover (which could make you just "another Chinese club") I don't see any other way out. Here's hoping you can sell Liu Yue for more money.
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Post by jt on Jun 26, 2020 16:51:01 GMT
Enjoying this Nick as per all of your saves. Never personally managed in China so will be interesting to see.
To be honest I'm shocked how bad your team is. It makes my Greek team look like world beaters. In fact I would fancy our chances against you 😉
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