Help! Lots of advice needed

[Marshdweller]

I took advantage of the recent discount on FM20 to get myself a copy as I was coming to the end of a FMT17 save and wanted a new challenge. It turns out, while I've been trudging through an old version of the game that they've pretty much changed everything except the name! The last time I played full FM was back in 2015 and that save didn't last long (mostly because I was too impatient back then).

Tactics are different, training is different, mentoring is different (not that I had that in FMT), there's a 5 year plan, scouting now has packages (I assume this is just a more realistic way to represent the limitations that existed in previous versions?), there's loads of new staff roles... I don't know where to start!

Can anyone recommend any good tips & tricks articles to help me get up and running please?

[ttgb]

Didn't realise so much had changed over the years.

There are lots of resources out there but all can be implemented easier.

Tactics- start by keeping it simple. Have a plan in your head depending on the level of team and select roles that suit the players. Lower league players can't play fancy football.

Training I leave it to my assistant.

Mentoring is easy. Select a team leader with good personality, a player with poor personality and someone who matches the position of the poor personality player.

Scouting - get a package you need, based on the club and make sure you can afford it. If you don't need new players don't bother with one. Is scouting all the world really necessary if there ate registration restrictions etc

[hokster]

I found that a combination of the introductions to each area and reading some basic threads at the SI forums helped. In particular, some of the guides at the top here community.sigames.com/forum/19-tactics-training-strategies-discussion/ are worth reading, especially the ones about training, youth intake, and mentoring.

[Marshdweller]

Thanks both, I'll have a look at those links. I'm reassured that neither of you seem to be emphasising any one area as absolutely key to success.

How much of an influence does the Dynamics feature (something I missed from my original list!) have on things?

And also, how often do you guys use the preset tactics, even as a starting point? I've had a quick look at a couple of systems in the game and they've thrown me a little off-balance. I'm no tactical genius and I now find myself second-guessing my instincts and wondering if a certain TI is key to the whole set-up, or whether it will all break down if I turn that IF into a Winger... starting from scratch seems tempting but (given my lack of tactical wizardry) when someone is offering me a ready-made tactic it seems daft to ignore it!!

[hokster]

Jun 10, 2020 11:10:17 GMT Marshdweller said:

Thanks both, I'll have a look at those links. I'm reassured that neither of you seem to be emphasising any one area as absolutely key to success.

How much of an influence does the Dynamics feature (something I missed from my original list!) have on things?

And also, how often do you guys use the preset tactics, even as a starting point? I've had a quick look at a couple of systems in the game and they've thrown me a little off-balance. I'm no tactical genius and I now find myself second-guessing my instincts and wondering if a certain TI is key to the whole set-up, or whether it will all break down if I turn that IF into a Winger... starting from scratch seems tempting but (given my lack of tactical wizardry) when someone is offering me a ready-made tactic it seems daft to ignore it!!

Dynamics plays a major role, it seems. Mentoring influence is based to some degree on the squad hierarchy. If you upset or sell a team leader or a highly influential player, it can cause a backlash in the squad. And one of the criteria used by boards to judge performance is your support from the squad and backroom chemistry. 

I used the preset tactics as a starting point when I first picked up FM20 (like you, having not played 18 or 19), but I think they're a bit overcomplicated and my systems now tend to use a lot fewer TIs and a few more PIs. I think they perform decently well so long as your squad is well-suited to the type of play. For players interested in tactics, they're most useful as a framework to understand how the game implements and responds to certain instructions and styles. So I wouldn't go changing things willy-nilly in them, as there might be a set of changes required to maintain the same balance of play (like changing an IF to a W might mean that you're missing a key goalscoring threat or central creative player, and you'll need to do some additional tweaking to restore that).

[Marshdweller]

Jun 10, 2020 11:17:45 GMT hokster said:

Dynamics plays a major role, it seems. Mentoring influence is based to some degree on the squad hierarchy. If you upset or sell a team leader or a highly influential player, it can cause a backlash in the squad. And one of the criteria used by boards to judge performance is your support from the squad and backroom chemistry. 

I used the preset tactics as a starting point when I first picked up FM20 (like you, having not played 18 or 19), but I think they're a bit overcomplicated and my systems now tend to use a lot fewer TIs and a few more PIs. I think they perform decently well so long as your squad is well-suited to the type of play. For players interested in tactics, they're most useful as a framework to understand how the game implements and responds to certain instructions and styles. So I wouldn't go changing things willy-nilly in them, as there might be a set of changes required to maintain the same balance of play (like changing an IF to a W might mean that you're missing a key goalscoring threat or central creative player, and you'll need to do some additional tweaking to restore that).

Thanks, that's really useful. I'll have more of a poke around tonight and probably post a load more questions tomorrow!

[ttgb]

I have found that tactics I used in fm18 and 19 have been capable with fm20, just using a few tweaks to suit team/players.

[Marshdweller]

I've had a bit of a rummage around in both FM20 and FMT20 and I will admit I am pleasantly surprised by FMT20. At first glance, it looks like many more of the features of FM20 have been carried across - there's mentoring groups, training looks similar and tactics are pretty much identical (I think, from the brief sample of FMT18 I played, the green lines indicating partnerships were missing from Touch, and probably other things too) and the five year plan is also in FMT. 

Early impressions of both games are really positive. They're much quicker (FMT17 could be really sluggish at times) and the 3D match view is in a different league. The animations have been improved and while there are significantly fewer cameras to choose from, the option to customise the height and zoom is great. In the full version, the player interactions and media work actually feels a bit more varied and like I'm actually having a conversation rather than stumbling blindly around a pretty limited maze. Dynamics looks like a great addition but might be a step too far to start with (I'm leaning slightly towards a first save in FMT just to adapt to the tactics and training), particularly as in recent saves I've often had a pretty high turnover of players in the first couple of seasons, which would probably be my undoing on this version. I really like the Assistant Manager's suggested team selections (finally with some reasoning!) and the pre-match tactical briefings, even if the players clearly weren't listening very closely!

Tactically, I think the 'Control Possession' preset looks the best - or at least, the TIs most closely resemble those I typically end up with when building my own tactics in previous versions. I am even more painfully aware of my own tactical shortcomings though, particularly when it comes to nullifying the opposition or changing the flow of a game. I also have no real idea of how Segundo Volantes, Mezzalas or Carrileros play, nor what the difference between an Inside Forward and an Inverted Winger is (I guess the former has more goal threat and the latter is more about providing assists?). I'm also still crap at choosing striker roles.

With regard to scouting, I'm still a little confused by the packages. Can you have packages but no scouts? Or just scouts and no package? Or does the package provide the list of available players for you to scout, so no package = no players (other than those you come into contact with via matches and manual scouting)? 

[hokster]

I can give you a brief overview of those roles, though there are many articles out there going into more depth on the instructions and movement patterns.

Segundo Volante: think of a Box to Box midfielder, but who starts deeper and has more defensive responsibilities. This is a common runner role in the Brazilian "box" formation. They can be extremely attacking with an attacking duty (I used one of those in my initial Newell's tactic), arriving outside/in the box.

Mezzala: these are relatively attacking-minded players who drift wide in the half-spaces and combine with wide players. An attacking mezzala is going to be less defensive minded. I like using these in a three-man midfield, where there is someone more defensively-focused to cover.

Carrilero: these are lateral shuttlers, who are mainly useful when there are no wide midfielders or wingers. They'll help cover and link play as the full/wingbacks push up the pitch. I use one of these to help cover for my attacking wingback in my current 5-3-2 tactic.

You're generally right that an IF is looking to score more and an IW is more creative. Rashidi has some good stuff comparing the two in his "Book of Roles" thread on the SI forums (he also goes into depth on the SV in that).

I think you're also right about scouting: the package just says where you're allowed to scout and how much that is going to cost. You could have one of those with no scouts, and no package would mean no players can be scouted by your scouts other than from matches.

[Marshdweller]

Thanks Hokster, that's going to be useful.

I am finding it useful to look at the presets and try to work out what the objective is. It's also interesting to see what sorts of roles and duties the game uses for different styles of play. My only disappointment is that most of the different styles seem to be created using a 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 as a base. I assume that's because they're the most common formations used by clubs at the moment and therefore will suit most of the squads in the game.

I've picked up an old save on FMT17 at the moment after dithering with FM20, so there's a small delay to me really getting stuck in. I'm probably just overthinking it and should just dive in, play around, get sacked, think about what went wrong and then start again, taking it a bit more seriously.

Also, training looks like something they tried way back in CM03-04, if anyone else remembers? I like the principle, but transitioning from leaving it to my assistant on FMT to tinkering with that and coaching assignments is biting off a bit more than I can chew right now!