Really Struggling to Connect With FM21

[Robson]

As per the title I'm just not falling for this game.

It doesn't seem particularly glitchy or anything, in fact quite sleek, I just can't seem to connect.  It might be too much involvement in areas I don't care for, or slower progression, or maybe I'm getting old.  I'm just not getting immersion, I'm sorta finding it cold albeit it is better interface to navigate.  Could be me finally acting my age and leaving fantasy football behind.  Or maybe the game has finally evolved into a version that doesn't sit right with me?  Or perhaps I need to be quiet longer and give it more time to adapt?

How's everyone else coping? 

[Marshdweller]

I can't comment on FM21, but that has happened to me in the past. I loved FMC15 but couldn't click with FMT16. Then, FMT17 was probably my favourite version followed by two I positively hated. It's something of a miracle that I even bought FM20!

[Nick]

I played one friendly as West Ham when I first bought the game and haven't touched it since. Doesn't feel any different than FM20, or FM19 before it. Still no changes to set pieces, and there hasn't been since they introduced the creator, and all the fluff they add actually ruins the experience rather than increasing the enjoyment of it. Football Manager is a chore to play these days and I honestly feel like I'm done with it.

[Marshdweller]

Dec 14, 2020 18:01:59 GMT Nick said:

I played one friendly as West Ham when I first bought the game and haven't touched it since. Doesn't feel any different than FM20, or FM19 before it. Still no changes to set pieces, and there hasn't been since they introduced the creator, and all the fluff they add actually ruins the experience rather than increasing the enjoyment of it. Football Manager is a chore to play these days and I honestly feel like I'm done with it.

I've enjoyed FM20, but I think I will probably go back to FM Touch. Less off-field nonsense and hopefully will get through more than a season a month. I'm just torn between sticking with FMT20 or spending £22 on FMT21 for what I imagine will just be little more than an up-to-date database and what looks like a nicer 3D match engine.

[Robson]

Dec 14, 2020 14:27:44 GMT Marshdweller said:

I can't comment on FM21, but that has happened to me in the past. I loved FMC15 but couldn't click with FMT16. Then, FMT17 was probably my favourite version followed by two I positively hated. It's something of a miracle that I even bought FM20!

Yeah I always used feel a bit weird when a version changed.  Like you'd bought a new pair shoes that weren't broken in and comfy like the old pair.  But barring a calamitous match engine I'd be starting to get into a save by now, be ticking off a few pointless badges 'parked the tank' 'headhunted' and have a grip of a club and tactics.  But I just seem to be floating on the surface.

[Robson]

Dec 14, 2020 18:01:59 GMT Nick said:

I played one friendly as West Ham when I first bought the game and haven't touched it since. Doesn't feel any different than FM20, or FM19 before it. Still no changes to set pieces, and there hasn't been since they introduced the creator, and all the fluff they add actually ruins the experience rather than increasing the enjoyment of it. Football Manager is a chore to play these days and I honestly feel like I'm done with it.

See. That's a massive shame. Like me, I hope you get it back too Nick.

[Marshdweller]

Daft question perhaps but have either of you considered going back to an older version? Or giving Touch a try?

I'll freely admit that I find that difficult a lot of the time as one thing SI do well is they nearly always introduce some small feature that when you go back you find it frustrating to have to cope without, like the first time you could mark things as non-negotiable in contract talks.

I downloaded the demo tonight and played a quick match to see what the match engine/3D was like and to be honest, I don't think it was a massive upgrade on FM20. I think I'll be going back to FMT20 and getting my money's worth out of that instead. There was a lot of "fluff" as Nick put it to wade through and the new skin made it hard to work out where I was supposed to be looking/reading a lot of the time.

[mrcool]

I'm enjoying FM2021. I loved FM2020 but didnt like FM19. I tend to find you enjoy it more the less you play

But always go back to older FM/CM's from time to time

[Reiver]

I struggled with the first 6 months of FM20, and then got second wind and I'm loving it.

[jawzy]

I have struggled with FM somewhat since this pandemic started.
lack of fans in real life situations, cancelled seasons, players having to isolate, results all over the place, real life and fantasy world seem even further apart, hence why imersion potentially feels abit off.

but then I have found other games a struggle this year cause my head doesnt feeel right.

I am my most content or happy when im in the middle of field, just listening to the various wildlife. or just the peace. I have done alot more autumn and winter walking this yaer then ever before.

How many of you guys are working from home? potentially in the same location you would be trying to play FM, thus that also interfering with your mindset?

[Marshdweller]

I've been working from home since March, though I have a tiny desk for work and usually play FM on my lap on the sofa in the evenings.

I've played as much FM as before the pandemic, but I must admit that I am getting more disillusioned with real football than FM. I can't help but feel that a lot of the stuff that's happened since football restarted has been unnecessary and felt a little hollow to me. I have found FM more of a struggle during the pandemic when things aren't going to plan - I don't cope with the frustration as well as previously. The games I've found most useful when things really get on top of me are the ones with no competitive aspect to them, where I can just trundle around doing my own thing for an hour or so.

[Robson]

Some interesting views. I've not really considered whether or not this year (2020) and all its upheaval has an impact, I suppose unconsciously it might.


I think its difficult to roll back to an earlier version. It often seems comparatively clunky or with a dated database. As a last resort before almost giving up I guess that does become an option. That leaves me hoping I eventually settle in alongside SI tweaking any little bugs and flaws as we go. It may help me if I choose to manage a familiar club that I simply like, regardless of how good they are or not, as opposed to a clever little challenge.

[Nick]

I think it's also important to note that my apathy towards FM has been growing for the last two or three years. A lot of that is just general burnout. I have played A LOT of FM over the years, mainly as the only game I play. It's only recently that I've branched out to other games.

My Steam library goes back to FM09 and shows tens of thousands of hours ploughed into these versions. My desk shows me cases as far back as CM01/02 and thinking back even further to CM97/98, my gaming life has been dominated by this series.

[Marshdweller]

I know what you mean Nick. Until about two years ago, FM was the only game I played. I don't think I've sunk as much time as you into the series, but I've been playing one version or another for about 18 years. I get a bit fatigued by the fact that in the end I usually end up doing the same things over and over again, which isn't helped by things like the match engine seeming to favour certain styles of play.

I looked at doing a side save from my Volendam career last night and wasted about an hour and a half holidaying until some new leagues loaded and I got offered a job only for my motivation for the hard work of getting everything in place to evaporate almost immediately.

[ttgb]

18 years, you pup. My first version was cm2, about 25 years ago. This is the only game I play and usually have it running whilst working from home.

[jawzy]

My first was CM93/4 by Domark - entering a score on a page number every time from the manual when you boot up

[chaodck]

I've always been a gamer. My dad worked on the tech industry since the early 90's, thus I've been surrounded by computers almost all my life. My first PC game approach were Prince of Persia, Golden Axe, Space Quest IV, Street Fighter 2 and Paganitzu (+ other Apogee games like Agent SAM, Crystal Towers, Duke Nukem, etc.) around 1991 being my earliest memories of playing videogames. I also had an Atari 130XE to play with since around that same year or a bit earlier, I remember enjoying Pitfall and Montezuma. Then a couple of years later we got a NES, where Super Mario Bros 1/Duck Hunt, Megaman 2, Ferrari Grand Prix Challenge, Flying Warriors and Mission:Impossible being the games I remember fondly. Unfortunately, and one of my biggest childhood regrets, we skipped the SNES at my home.

I started off playing managerial games with PC Fútbol, maybe in the 7.0 or 2000 version. I switched to CM soon though, with CM3 being the first one (almost 100% sure it was season 00-01). The CM/FM series have been by far the games where I've most put my gaming hours though. Even to this date I normally put in 1000+ hours per year.

[Reiver]

My story is similar to chaodck - my dad was a civil engineer so all my life I had computers around me. From the Spectrum onward, though the first one I remember was a 386 processor - I played all the 90s classics. I think the first CM I ever played was also CM2, with the 96/97 season update.

[Marshdweller]

I'm really struggling with this version too. I must have started 15+ saves (sometimes multiple versions with the same club after I delete the initial attempt in a grump) but I'm finding lots of minor irritations and very little that I would say is a significant improvement on FM20. The match engine seems a nice, with more variety in off the ball movement (to my ignorant eye anyway) and better decisions about shot locations, and the addition of xG is nice for assessing whether a tactic is succeeding but I'm finding all the off-field stuff a massive drag, much more than FM20. There's also something about COVID lurking in the background - whether it's the finances, tweaked transfer market or condensed fixture list - which is detracting from the game for me.

I've even tried Touch but I'm falling into the same traps as before, with the temptation to use the Instant Result button overwhelming at times.

[Robson]

This is going to sound a bit daft but the key is winning or being competitive. I've found the moments where I hit bad form; click away to pass time and my team is treading water or worse than that - then I'm quick to notice all the crap. The immersion dries up and it is a save killer. When I win more it papers over the cracks in the game. Maybe it just me but that's how it feels.

There are mistakes with team records, pre season odds, loan arrangements. xG seems good at first but annoys more as time goes on. Offside goals, pushes in the box, VAR, the temperament and expectations of players...its a long list of niggles. Plus the game is quite difficult. I notice in our stories thread here that no one is really nailing a long term save.

So the basics for me on this version are - find something in the team I'm managing that I can identify with even down to the colours of kit and screens. Get the hook of an idea, or mission. Then most importantly play well. Manage hierarchies carefully, good personalities, some experienced players and staff that like the club, and find a tactic (your own ideally but can be anyone's) that is going to win and win as your reputation grows.  That last point is important.  At lower levels the tactic can be basic, just a simple blend of the right roles and no outlandish instructions.  At the higher end of the reputation game you have to have an attacking tactical shape that exploits half spaces and can overload organised opponents.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Feb 21, 2021 21:21:14 GMT Marshdweller said:

I'm really struggling with this version too. I must have started 15+ saves (sometimes multiple versions with the same club after I delete the initial attempt in a grump) but I'm finding lots of minor irritations and very little that I would say is a significant improvement on FM20. The match engine seems a nice, with more variety in off the ball movement (to my ignorant eye anyway) and better decisions about shot locations, and the addition of xG is nice for assessing whether a tactic is succeeding but I'm finding all the off-field stuff a massive drag, much more than FM20. There's also something about COVID lurking in the background - whether it's the finances, tweaked transfer market or condensed fixture list - which is detracting from the game for me.

I've even tried Touch but I'm falling into the same traps as before, with the temptation to use the Instant Result button overwhelming at times.

What off-field stuff do you find a massive drag? There's a whole bunch of stuff you can just skip, like press conferences. I'm not a fan of the first season either. Setting up staff responsibilities, training schedules etc is annoying, and it takes a while to get to know your players.

I have also struggled lately to really get into something, maybe I'm just burned out from FM a bit. The scheduling in Romania annoyed me, where you had months with hardly any games at the start of the season and I ridiculously condensed schedule at the end. I then gave Mordovia Saransk another try after I found a good Russia database. It was a YDWAWK-save where I put them in the 4th tier, where we had great intakes because I could easily improve facilities all the time due to Mordovia getting a government subsidy every year, which increased pretty steeply as well as we rose up the leagues. Then I got bored again and started a save with Austria Wien, with whom I won the domestic double in the second season and made it to the CL quarter final. We were even 5 minutes away from the semi finals if it weren't for a late Vinicius goal for eventual winners Real Madrid.

The big money in the top of European football is starting to put me off. I didn't like this at York City when I got to the PL, and seeing Barcelona spend about €90m for Kane and over €200m for Joao Felix in the first 2 seasons in my Austria Wien save made me vomit a bit as well. Therefore I started a save in South Korea, but the names are impossible!   In my first intake I had 5 guys called Baek, 2 Choi's and 2 Kim's, and because my European brain is not used to South Korean names it struggles to distinguish who is who in a quick manner.

An idea I'm playing with now is based on this. Apparently there is an extinct club, Bermuda Hogges FC, that can only buy players from Bermuda. However, when you put this club back in existence and move them to another country (say Germany), they can only buy German players. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with making regions into a country to emulate the Basque region, or if you would create a team like Swansea that plays in a different country. You can still put Bermuda Hogges in a different country though and create your own team that can only buy players from that specific country. Just no clue in which country to do this though.

[Robson]

Feb 22, 2021 10:06:53 GMT Dirk Nowitzki said:

Feb 21, 2021 21:21:14 GMT Marshdweller said:

The big money in the top of European football is starting to put me off. I didn't like this at York City when I got to the PL, and seeing Barcelona spend about €90m for Kane and over €200m for Joao Felix in the first 2 seasons in my Austria Wien save made me vomit a bit as well.

I was reading an article recently that was speaking about how close Barcelona are to actual bankruptcy.  Plus the Nou Camp is old and majorly run down.  Didn't realise how toxic it was all becoming. 

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Feb 22, 2021 10:25:57 GMT Robson said:

Feb 22, 2021 10:06:53 GMT Dirk Nowitzki said:

The big money in the top of European football is starting to put me off. I didn't like this at York City when I got to the PL, and seeing Barcelona spend about €90m for Kane and over €200m for Joao Felix in the first 2 seasons in my Austria Wien save made me vomit a bit as well.

I was reading an article recently that was speaking about how close Barcelona are to actual bankruptcy.  Plus the Nou Camp is old and majorly run down.  Didn't realise how toxic it was all becoming. 

Yeah they are in a terrible state! That's exactly what annoyed me, somehow they could have a net spend of over €200m in the first two seasons. I just made another manager to check their financial state in my game, and they are super rich again and projected to have €613m in the bank after 2 more seasons...

The thing is, I do love European football and the Conference League is amazing with so many teams from different countries, but once you start qualifying for the CL you never end up there anymore and it's all about the big money.

[Marshdweller]

I've started with Forest on more than on occasion (so I know the players and am deeply invested in making a success of things) but apart from the Touch save, I haven't made it to the first competitive fixtures yet. In my touch save I'm doing really well on the pitch but I'm making the same mistake as I did with Trapani in FMT20 where I'm whizzing through it so fast that I will get to the end of the season and not put anything in place for the summer transfer window and then scramble to bodge together some signings. 

I'm finding the press conference seems to take longer, the initial recruitment meeting seems like half a dozen clicks for each player suggested and the first team meeting with all the additional promises drags too. Then it's things like the new layout for the team talks (I assume it's meant to mimic standing in front of a dressing room with the players around three sides of the room) which annoy me, and the Touchline Tablet seems to give me less information than I want (and I haven't invested the time in customising it, so that's partly my own fault). I also read the threads on here and a few FM players on Twitter and see all the grumbles about bugs, whether it's the issues with newgens or just immersion-breaking things to do with the season summaries etc. and I'm wary of investing the time and energy to have my save spoiled by something like that. 

Finally, I'm also realising that I got a bit lucky with my Volendam save in FM20 and that I still have a huge amount to learn or improve upon about the full version of the game. I'm very limited tactically, either using variations of a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 diamond (and I've never been a manager who has a defensive/underdog tactic and an attacking/odds-on-favourite tactic), I need to get better at forward planning, squad management, youth development, assigning scouts, keeping the staff as good as possible... All this is making me a bit grumpy with the game in the first place too. 

[Reiver]

Feb 22, 2021 10:06:53 GMT Dirk Nowitzki said:

An idea I'm playing with now is based on this. Apparently there is an extinct club, Bermuda Hogges FC, that can only buy players from Bermuda. However, when you put this club back in existence and move them to another country (say Germany), they can only buy German players. Unfortunately, this doesn't work with making regions into a country to emulate the Basque region, or if you would create a team like Swansea that plays in a different country. You can still put Bermuda Hogges in a different country though and create your own team that can only buy players from that specific country. Just no clue in which country to do this though.

Oh I love this!

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Feb 22, 2021 12:21:04 GMT Marshdweller said:

I'm finding the press conference seems to take longer, the initial recruitment meeting seems like half a dozen clicks for each player suggested and the first team meeting with all the additional promises drags too. Then it's things like the new layout for the team talks (I assume it's meant to mimic standing in front of a dressing room with the players around three sides of the room) which annoy me, and the Touchline Tablet seems to give me less information than I want (and I haven't invested the time in customising it, so that's partly my own fault). I also read the threads on here and a few FM players on Twitter and see all the grumbles about bugs, whether it's the issues with newgens or just immersion-breaking things to do with the season summaries etc. and I'm wary of investing the time and energy to have my save spoiled by something like that. 

I agree that most of this is annoying. Apart from the press conference after you just got hired I don't bother with them and have my assistant take care of them, and I don't think it has ever really hurt me. You can also skip the recruitment meetings and just don't use the gestures at all. But yeah, I wish they would just add some playable leagues in Africa for instance, instead of adding these kind of features that you never use.

Feb 22, 2021 12:26:41 GMT Reiver said:

Oh I love this!

Yep this is really cool! Just make sure you also change the values for the youth scouting etc, otherwise they don't get a youth intake since the current values cause them to not have a youth academy.
I'm thinking to create a team in a big city that has been relatively poor football wise, just don't know where that is yet. Brasilia would be an option since there is a 72k seater stadium and no team higher than Serie D, but that would mean that the state championship will become very dull once you develop your club into a Serie A side.

[jawzy]

Defo feeling less enjoyment with smaller sides on this version. So my next attempts will be within top flights most likely see if its the time slog thats causing me to lose interest. just need to find a larger club project outside of UK. I was actually enjoying my China save until the registeration issue popped up.

[Robson]

Feb 22, 2021 12:21:04 GMT Marshdweller said:

I'm wary of investing the time and energy to have my save spoiled by something like that. 

I'm finding the press conference seems to take longer - I don't do any media at all in the game.  New signing responsibilities go to my DoF and the rest to my Assistant.

The initial recruitment meeting seems like half a dozen clicks for each player suggested - I don't attend or rather if it's a must respond item I click attend and then immediately end the meeting without any dialogue at all.  None.

The first team meeting with all the additional promises drags too - I don't make a single promise.  I simply confirm where we are expected to finish in the league (everyone all agrees with me), plus we'll make a decent fist of the cup and then say that I don't want to make any promises for now.  End.

Then it's things like the new layout for the team talks (I assume it's meant to mimic standing in front of a dressing room with the players around three sides of the room) - All my team talks are handed over to my assistant but I don't let him do opposition instructions.

The Touchline Tablet seems to give me less information than I want (and I haven't invested the time in customising it, so that's partly my own fault) - The tablet thingy is crap.

My staff responsibilities take a bit of setting up at the outset but none of the above seems to cause me any problems at all.  I probably don't boost morale much but it isn't weakened either.  Oh, and another couple of things.  I never set a conduct code nor agree to ridiculous player promises/demands at the start of a contract negotiation.  Maybe if its an easy one like 'send on a language course' or 'play me as a central defender role' and I'm doing that anyway I'll agree.  But if they want me to sign players for certain positions, or new coaches, stuff like that I remove it from the negotiation.  If they've locked it in I walk away as it seems to lead to trouble more often than not.

Finally for any tactic chat we should all use that part of the forum a bit more to help each other.

[jawzy]

On a side note, can get more info on tablet if increase resolution. but i like to play windowed.

[Reiver]

If anyone is interesed, based on Dirk's post, first test is positive: I have created a team just like Athletic Bilbao, but for Catalan players.